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The Gaming Universe  |  General  |  General Chit Chat  |  And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
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Author Topic: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...  (Read 1667 times)

Offline Aegis Runestone

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And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« on: January 22, 2012, 12:30:33 PM »
Read all about it here. If you want it stopped, go to "Home" and sign. I have.

Ugh. I'm TIRED of legislation trying to stop piracy by violating privacy. Seriously, Stungun gave me an interesting insight on how stop pirates--Companies need to out-perform them.

An example, you buy a TV show on DvD. One of the episodes is broken and unwatchable. You got to piratebay and get an illegal copy, and then that copy works perfectly with no flaws.

See the issue? People would probably not pirate if the companies would legitimately out-perform the pirates. Either that, or take the Steam path. Or whatever. Companies are too greedy.

Edit: Also, I know a bunch of signatures may not work and we'll need another Blackout, but you never know.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 12:32:14 PM by Aegis Runestone »
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Offline Chris Miller

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2012, 01:23:05 PM »
I told you...

Offline Lethes

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2012, 01:28:45 PM »
How can the US even participate in making secret laws and junk? What's the deal with America these days...
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Offline Chris Miller

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2012, 01:35:24 PM »
I'm surprised no one has noticed that making laws in secret is, um, illegal.  Any law in this country has to go before Congress, and has to be open for public perusal.  The only reason we know about this at all is that the text was leaked.  Only totalitarian governments make laws in such a unilateral fashion.  Unfortunately, they've hidden it from us long enough that it doesn't matter.  This is going through, petitions or no.  And in any case, international law trumps our national law.  So even in the one-in-a-thousand chance it doesn't go through, the United States is still a part of the organization, and you can still get in trouble with that organization.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 01:39:47 PM by Chris Miller »

Offline Rowan

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 02:36:02 PM »
Many laws have been passed under the radar because of the simple fact that "we the people" don't care enough to actually LOOK at what is being passed. It's only when something drastic like PIPA and SOPA comes along that a mainstream response to a bill comes out.

As for anti-pirate acts, here's a simple one. Victims of piracy could try suing the people that own the servers that host the means for people to pirate their content. If the people running the servers can't afford to pay their hosting bills, there is no piracy.

On the flip side, if companies like Microsoft didn't feel the need to include nose-bleedingly high prices with ANY of their products, the WANT to pirate wouldn't be so high, either.
Never say never or always. In most cases, there is an exception to anything you can think of that you might use either word in. "Most likely" and "highly improbable" in a lot of those cases would ring true, but not never/always.

Offline Chris Miller

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 02:37:04 PM »
It's not so much that we didn't care to look.  We weren't even given the option to look.
And you're right about M$'s prices.  Intel's the same way.  One example, which still happens a lot today, is back when the 486 DX/2 came out, the second version of the 486.  It was about a thousand bucks, the same as a high-end i7 is today.  AMD released their own for about $250, and Intel, unusually, immediately cut their prices to match it.  Prices are very often whatever the manufacturer cares to make them. 
EDIT: A barrel of oil, for example, in order for the oil companies to break even, would have to cost about $35.  It "costs" about $100.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 02:40:45 PM by Chris Miller »

Offline Aliem

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 03:11:33 PM »
I'm surprised no one has noticed that making laws in secret is, um, illegal.  Any law in this country has to go before Congress, and has to be open for public perusal.  The only reason we know about this at all is that the text was leaked.  Only totalitarian governments make laws in such a unilateral fashion.  Unfortunately, they've hidden it from us long enough that it doesn't matter.  This is going through, petitions or no.  And in any case, international law trumps our national law.  So even in the one-in-a-thousand chance it doesn't go through, the United States is still a part of the organization, and you can still get in trouble with that organization.
That's not entirely accurate.  Judicial review is the process in which congress passes a vote it doesn't want to take part in for political reasons to the supreme court, which then makes a ruling.  That creates law without congress's vote or presidential approval.

That said, "secret laws" aren't a thing.  Every law must start as a bill in either the house or senate, be passed by both houses unaltered - if it's passed by the house and the senate doesn't like it, and makes some amendments, it has to go back to the house - and be approved by the president.  In no way can this be done "in secret".  All the goings on are on congressional record, and can be seen on CSPAN.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 03:13:12 PM by Janus »

Offline Golden Warrior

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 12:16:37 AM »
Many laws have been passed under the radar because of the simple fact that "we the people" don't care enough to actually LOOK at what is being passed. It's only when something drastic like PIPA and SOPA comes along that a mainstream response to a bill comes out.

Agreed, the reactions over PIPA and SOPA are the exception and not the norm which is sad actually. Here we are the "great" USA and the vast majority of people have no idea of what is getting passed through by law makers. Sure most people are familar with things like the economic crisis and and the so called "war on terror" but many people actually don't have any idea of all the other things that get through.

As for anti-pirate acts, here's a simple one. Victims of piracy could try suing the people that own the servers that host the means for people to pirate their content. If the people running the servers can't afford to pay their hosting bills, there is no piracy.

There's only one problem I can foresee with that. If their bills go up, they're likely to pass it along to everyone else. They'll probably sue the pirates or turn them in or what ever, but if the average costs rise enough they'll happily pass on the cost to all the customers that are using their hosting services for legitimate sites by raising their rates.

On the flip side, if companies like Microsoft didn't feel the need to include nose-bleedingly high prices with ANY of their products, the WANT to pirate wouldn't be so high, either.

Aye, that is a big problem. Another is that with few exceptions (ex certain games, apps, specific hardware still not yet supported by other OSes etc) you really don't need Windows anymore. However, MS has done a very good job in creating the illusion that Windows is still the best platform for doing things on the Internet, running office apps, etc. That and some people would rather run a cracked copy of Windows than give MS control over where they can install it and how many hardware changes they can make before having to re-register.
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Offline Aegis Runestone

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 08:59:10 AM »
On the flip side, if companies like Microsoft didn't feel the need to include nose-bleedingly high prices with ANY of their products, the WANT to pirate wouldn't be so high, either.

That's similar to what Stungun said as I quoted above.
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Offline Aliem

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 10:16:14 AM »
Keep in mind, if it wasn't for microsoft's "bleedingly high priced" windows 95 with it's free browser, free web browsers might not be a thing.  That court case they won (the free shipping of IE got them sued by the guys who made Netscape) ensured that web browsers could be distributed for free.

Offline Rowan

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 11:28:42 AM »
There's only one problem I can foresee with that. If their bills go up, they're likely to pass it along to everyone else. They'll probably sue the pirates or turn them in or what ever, but if the average costs rise enough they'll happily pass on the cost to all the customers that are using their hosting services for legitimate sites by raising their rates.

The companies that would be willing to go through with the idea to sue site owners wouldn't need to cut a deal with them for subscribers, mainly. The highest hits for illegal downloading nowadays are the torrent search sites. Bit Torrent is very easy to track IPs with. The companies can merely hire a few people whose job is nothing but to browse through said sites, and seeing whose IPs are either seeding (providing), leeching (downloading), or both.
As for the owner(s) going to using a paid service...that goes against the concept. Users would be paying good money to break the law. Why pay money at one site, when they can easily go to a different site altogether?
Never say never or always. In most cases, there is an exception to anything you can think of that you might use either word in. "Most likely" and "highly improbable" in a lot of those cases would ring true, but not never/always.

Offline Jeremy

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2012, 01:58:07 AM »
How can the US even participate in making secret laws and junk? What's the deal with America these days...

Notice that ACTA isn't a U.S. law being considered; it's a treaty many countries (U.S. included) are considering entering into. That gets a little complicated; just because we entry into a treaty doesn't mean we'll actually abide by it. I don't remember all of the details; not long ago (Obama era) we entered into a treaty about small arms, and a bunch of people on my Facebook started posting stuff saying that the treaty meant that we would lose our right to bear arms. But, as I pointed out, that's not so. There was a Supreme Court Case, Reid v. Covert, in which the court ruled that the U.S. Constitution always trumps international treaties. Ergo, we could never enter into a treaty that would take away our constitutional rights. That's why I'm not worried about ACTA. The government can sign anything they want; congress would have to follow it with a domestic law that follows through with our treaty obligations, and that is when we can put a stop to it.

I don't think we'll see any more anti-piracy stuff in the U.S., though. The blackout and massive amounts of mail that the congresspeople received seems to have scared the feces out of all of them. They're not going to push through legislation that could cost them the next election.
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Offline Aegis Runestone

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2012, 02:28:31 PM »
I'm grateful for your optimism, Jeremy, and what you've said. It really soothes my soul to hear that.
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Offline Golden Warrior

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 12:27:00 AM »
I don't think we'll see any more anti-piracy stuff in the U.S., though. The blackout and massive amounts of mail that the congresspeople received seems to have scared the feces out of all of them. They're not going to push through legislation that could cost them the next election.

It would be nice, but this is far from over. The RIAA and MPAA and others are still going to be lobbying congress to do something about the rampant piracy that's going on. SOPA and PIPA not dead yet. They've been tabled for now.

Also keep in mind the many SOPA and PIPA supporters. Even if SOPA and PIPA don't go through, it won't stop it from re-appearing under new names and/or as part of other bills to try and push it through along with something that's more popular. It's not unheard of for politicians to do those things after waiting for the masses to cool off about it.

In actuality, this is one of the most critical times in which we should be watching what our politicians are doing. We need to constantly remind them that they work for us the American people and not the highest bidder and the sad truth is that as a nation we really haven't been doing our part.

I'm all for protecting content creators whether it's movies, music, software, etc, that depend on sales for their work. However, you don't need to curtail American rights to do it either. Not only do the laws need to be updated, but also the industry itself also needs to change and good luck on the latter especially for the movie and music industries.
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The tediousness of paperwork makes my eyes burn and head hurt. Yet it is a necessary evil we all share. I like swords. Swords are simple. They aren't confusing or evil. Just straight forward implements of death. Have a nice day. ~GW

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Offline Aliem

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Re: And you thought SOPA and PIPA were bad...
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 12:46:08 AM »
I don't think anyone thought they were dead.  The bills themselves are not going to happen, though.  Congress will likely get something else in place, and it will ultimately be pointless, since there's already the DMCA.  Rest assured, though, legislation like SOPA and protectIP won't happen.

Though if dumbass groups like anonymous feel the need to seek "revenge" for ever legitimate act of pirate squashing that happens, maybe it will.

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