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The Gaming Universe  |  General  |  The Gaming Lounge  |  SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
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Author Topic: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden  (Read 884 times)

Offline Aegis Runestone

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2016, 07:30:17 PM »
Good point. Still, can't excuse your own anger just because someone is more angry. :P

Anyway, as far as Nintendo's current state, I think it isn't best to pass judgment until they reveal more about Switch.

Especially if Skyrim Special Edition is confirmed for it.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 07:36:33 PM by Aegis Runestone »
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Offline Kaiser Infinity

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2016, 05:00:15 PM »
I just wonder what it could mean for gaming. If it takes off, not only could it be a platform for mobile games, but it could merge the business of traditional game development with the emerging mobile market. Companies may be more willing to develop more games if they have a "mobile-first" capacity, similar to modern web development. This may mean we could see more games with microtransaction-heavy business models, or more MMO-enabled games, but it could then blur the lines between AAA games, indie games, and the mobile games market.

That concludes my armchair business economist session for tonight.
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Offline Golden Warrior

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2016, 06:02:13 PM »
In a way this also brings us back to homebrew games if we're going to be blurring the lines since one can argue that homebrew games are another form of indie games especially when they're sold like any other game. There's still people making homebrew games and putting them on cartridges to run on the old NES and somehow I don't think that's ever going to go away.
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Offline MottZilla

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2016, 02:10:33 PM »
Reminds me of this story:

Quote
Secret of Mana was originally planned to be a launch title for the SNES-CD add-on. After the contract between Nintendo and Sony to produce the add-on failed, and Sony repurposed its work on the SNES-CD into the competing PlayStation console, Square adapted the game for the SNES cartridge format. The game had to be altered to fit the storage space of a SNES game cartridge, which is much smaller than that of a CD-ROM. The developers initially resisted continuing the project without the CD add-on, believing that too much of the game would have to be cut, but they were overruled by company management. As a result of the hardware change, several features had to be cut from the game, and some completed work needed to be redone. Most major of these removals was the option to take multiple routes through the game that led to several possible endings, in contrast to the linear journey in the final product. The plot that remained was different than the original conception, and Tanaka has said that the original story had a much darker tone. Ishii has estimated that up to forty percent of the planned game was dropped to meet the space limitations, and critics have suggested that the hardware change led to technical problems when too much happens at once in the game. In 2006, Level magazine claimed that Secret of Mana's rocky development was Square's main inspiration to move their games, such as the Final Fantasy series, from Nintendo consoles to Sony consoles in 1996.

If you remember, or if you feel liking booting up a ROM, Secret of Mana struggled with the limited sound channels it had to conform to on the SNES. The music would get interrupted whenever it had to process one or more sound effects during playtime, like opening a chest or hitting baddies. It'd be amazing to see all of that cut content return in a remastered Secret of Mana title on the Nintendo Playstation Switch.

I'm not sure that "story" is based on a whole lot of truth. One part is true, the translator for Secret of Mana in interviews has stated that due to ROM size limitations they had him cut down the script significantly. There are ROM hacks that expand the ROM and script making it closer to the Japanese version. The mentions of the game being for the "CD-ROM add-on" and then turned into a cartridge game don't make sense. While there was prototype hardware, I doubt Squaresoft was seriously developing games for it. I doubt the whole Secret of Mana being influenced by that. The prototype we have seen has very limited RAM which actually makes cartridges look superior. Yes the CD-ROM can hold a lot of data but you can only access a tiny amount at any one point in time.

Anyway, to the subject of homebrew. You can do homebrew development on nearly any old console these days if you want to. The NES is very popular cause of it's somewhat more simple nature overall. It's not beyond one person to make an entire NES game on their own. It's more difficult on other systems particularly when more and more detailed art is needed. And some of these homebrew games actually do get cartridges manufactured and sold. retrousb.com sells some, not to mention their new AVS console. If anyone is unaware the AVS is a hardware NES clone system that outputs digital AV through HDMI. If you're going to play NES games on a HDTV then it's the way to go. It even have a Famicom cartridge port.
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Offline Kaiser Infinity

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2016, 03:21:44 PM »
There are two more articles I found that corroborate the story of a larger Seiken Densetsu game:

https://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/secret-of-mana-nes/
http://www.lostlevels.org/200311/200311-square.shtml

Unfortunately their sources are no longer available on the web.

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Offline MottZilla

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2016, 02:56:13 AM »
I still don't buy that any actual prototype game of Seiken Densetsu 2 existed for the Super Famicom Playstation CD-ROM add-on. I think like in those links they may have had plans and ideas for things. But the way some people word things makes it sounds more like the game was nearly done on the CD format and things had to be cut and/or reworked to bring it to cartridge. When you look at the prototype that was found and what it is, I don't see too much that suggests that.

The music instruments and sound effects canceling things out and sounding crappy was just crappy programming, not some problem due to loosing the CD-ROM format. The only possible way you might get that is the idea that if they intended to play CD audio tracks for music instead of having sampled instruments like every other SNES game. But this doesn't make sense as they certainly could have fixed the issue if they wanted to/had the time. It's just one of those things that never got fixed during development.
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Offline Kaiser Infinity

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2016, 05:48:16 AM »
In that case, I hope they rerelease an updated version of the original, and officially release the second (third) game while they're at it.
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Offline MottZilla

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2016, 01:15:01 PM »
Well they did Sword of Mana on GBA which was a remake of Seiken Densetsu 1 I believe. It is a shame that since they never did their own translation that we've yet to get SD3 on any Virtual Console platform. But it's really only too bad for Square since everyone interested will just play the unofficial translated ROM by whatever means they can.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 02:45:51 PM by MottZilla »
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Offline Golden Warrior

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2016, 06:29:07 AM »
That's true, Square's missed out on an opportunity with that one. SD3 would've been a huge hit over here if they translated it and released it over here. Actually they're missing out on a lot of opportunity with the Mana series. They've been lost on every game they've released after SD3 IMO.
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The tediousness of paperwork makes my eyes burn and head hurt. Yet it is a necessary evil we all share. I like swords. Swords are simple. They aren't confusing or evil. Just straight forward implements of death. Have a nice day. ~GW

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Offline Kaiser Infinity

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2016, 08:26:59 PM »
That reminds me, they did remake Final Fantasy Adventure a second time, as Adventures of Mana on mobile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d7md_wotDI

The sound effects for the menu are straight from Secret of Mana.
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Offline Golden Warrior

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2016, 06:04:08 PM »
Looks OK, but it's not likely I'll ever play an RPG on mobile. I need either a full sized computer monitor or a TV to really get into an RPG.
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ILomer - Human Gaurdian LV20
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The tediousness of paperwork makes my eyes burn and head hurt. Yet it is a necessary evil we all share. I like swords. Swords are simple. They aren't confusing or evil. Just straight forward implements of death. Have a nice day. ~GW

I like swords ~Fighter, 8-Bit Theater

Offline Aegis Runestone

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2016, 07:30:36 PM »
Looks OK, but it's not likely I'll ever play an RPG on mobile. I need either a full sized computer monitor or a TV to really get into an RPG.
I agree, ports of RPGs that use controllers are awful on mobile. Now, a game like Final Fantasy Record Keeper that was DESIGNED as a tablet/phone game, that I can get into. Even if it has a weak story. At least I can play it for like 15 minutes a day and make progress... and NOT struggle with the blasted touch screen to move.
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Offline Kaiser Infinity

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2016, 02:27:00 PM »
There's always the MOGA bluetooth controllers.
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Offline Golden Warrior

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2016, 07:15:05 PM »
True, but they still won't solve the small screen problem for me. When it comes to mobile games, the most I can tolerate is things like Bejeweled and dare I say it, Solitaire games for when I'm waiting on something. When I'm on the go with my phone I just don't have time for something more than that. I've tried Final Fantasy Record Keeper and it was cute and it was kind of nice to have music from all the games in it, but it became too repetitive to where the game practically plays itself and I don't even have to look at it for a lot of it. Also, it has micro-transactions. Even if you don't need to use them to get anywhere, the fact that they're there is such an unforgivable cardinal sin that I can't get past so after trying it out to see what the hype was about I dumped it pretty quickly.
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Gustal Dymlos Human Fighter LV2Quaxialaem - Dark Elf Necromancer LV27
Woth Half-Orc Barbarian LV1Afuwkoac - Freeblood Shadowknight LV26
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ILomer - Human Gaurdian LV20
Ruliach - Fae Warden LV20
Naebiya - Wood Elf Beastlord LV29

The tediousness of paperwork makes my eyes burn and head hurt. Yet it is a necessary evil we all share. I like swords. Swords are simple. They aren't confusing or evil. Just straight forward implements of death. Have a nice day. ~GW

I like swords ~Fighter, 8-Bit Theater

Offline Aegis Runestone

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Re: SNES CD-ROM Homebrew - Super Boss Gaiden
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2016, 12:36:59 AM »
There's always the MOGA bluetooth controllers.
Those don't work for all games that need a controller. Like mobile FF4.

@GW: FFRK hardly plays itself unless you're just auto-ing easy content. But, regardless, I won't argue with you due to our differing opinions. :p
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 07:02:45 PM by Aegis Runestone »
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